Researchers Guy Itzchakov and Avraham Kluger found the same thing in their work on listening: how a person is received in a conversation changes whether they keep talking and how much of themselves they're willing to share. Cortez turned that strategy into a process for her board to create a new strategic plan, when no one walked in with the same ideas or values. It's proof that you don't need to win the argument to align your team.

This episode is for anyone leading a room that's giving you less than you know they have. You'll leave with a clearer sense of what actually makes people show up fully, how to ask questions with clarity without needing to correct anyone, and what it looks like to become the kind of trusted leader people stop editing themselves for.

LINKS:

Guest

• Angelica Cortez, Executive Director, Suzuki Association of the Americas: https://suzukiassociation.org/journalarticle/meet-executive-director-angelica-cortez/

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/angelica-ivonne-cortez/

Suzuki Association of the Americas

• https://suzukiassociation.org/

Connect with Margaret

• https://thespeakershiplab.com/

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaretwattsromney/

  
  

Research

• Kluger, A. N., & Itzchakov, G. (2022). The Power of Listening at Work. Annual Review of Organizational Psychology and Organizational Behavior, 9, 121–146.
  https://www.annualreviews.org/content/journals/10.1146/annurev-orgpsych-012420-091013

Music acknowledgments

• Circle of fifths / scale practice — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3GiWauofIA

But now you're the one leading people, and a harder question shows up. When do you let someone struggle their way to their own belief about themself, and when do you hand them the positive reflection they need to hear from you? 

This episode follows former Olympic Gold Medal swimming coach and current executive leader coach Steve Mellor through both sides of that question, in his own life first. 

Steve built his self-belief alone, five a.m. after five a.m., before he ever coached a single swimmer. Then he had to stand across from swimmers who looked at him and said, "I can't do this without you," and tell them the truth: they could.

Steve built a respected career across collegiate and international swimming before he ever coached a single executive. He made the leap anyway, one guest conversation at a time, until the podcast he started as a side project became the thing that told him who he was becoming next.

You'll hear the real research behind why some belief has to be built alone to count, and why some belief only becomes real once someone else hands it to you, and which one should come first.



Note: There is another British swimmer named Steven Mellor who competed at the 1992 Barcelona Olympics. Our guest is a different person."

Note on Olympic gold medal: Steve Mellor coached Brooks Curry, who swam in a qualifying heat at the Tokyo Olympics in place of Caeleb Dressel, specifically so Dressel could rest for the final. The US Men's team then won gold in the relay, with Dressel leading off. Right after the medal ceremony, Dressel walked off the podium, found Curry in the stands, called him down to the first row, and tossed him his gold medal, saying, ‘I felt like he deserved that a little more than me.’

Steve Mellor Growth Ready coaching: https://growthready.com/

Steve Mellor Growth Ready podcast: https://growthready.com/podcasts/

Brain activation from positive self descriptions
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/human-neuroscience/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2021.700046/full

Social rewards same place as money: "The findings suggest that social and monetary rewards are processed by the same population of neurons within these regions of the striatum. "
https://academic.oup.com/scan/article/12/10/1558/3980284?login=false

Bandura on Self-efficacy:
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Self_Efficacy/eJ-PN9g_o-EC?hl=en&gbpv=1

Have you ever been in a conversation that suddenly went somewhere you didn't expect, and felt yourself go completely blank?

Most of us have been told that the answer to high-pressure communication is more confidence: more talking points, more volume, more assuredness. So when a conversation goes sideways, and none of that seems to work, it feels like the floor has dropped out.

But what if there's a structure underneath every moment of change? A pattern you already know? What if the skill of speaking through pivots and surprises isn't about having more answers, but about knowing what questions to ask to see the bigger picture? To see the bigger story you're in.

BY THE TIME YOU FINISH LISTENING, YOU'LL DISCOVER:

• Why story is the simplest and most powerful map for navigating moments of change

• The three elements of every story, NOW, UNKNOWN, NEW, and how naming which one is shaky can help you find your footing again

• What WALL-E and a cat covered in red sauce teach us about our brains and what goes wrong when two people are living in different stories at once

The next time something goes sideways in a conversation, you don't have to reach for more content. You just need to ask who and where you are in the story.

Follow me on Instagram so you can see behind the scenes of how I help leaders communicate with clarity, confidence, and connection and how you can too.

LEARN MORE FROM MARGARET: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaretwattsromney/  Instagram: @thespeakershiplab

OTHER LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

AmeriQuest "Don't Judge Too Quickly" ad  

Episode 1: What Is Speakership?

Most of us think that the way through fear is to control every variable: memorize the pitch word for word, run the numbers one more time, rehearse the conversation until it's airtight. So when nerves show up anyway, in front of the board, the sharks, or your own team, it feels like proof you didn't prepare enough.

Here's what Jack Bonneau's story shows instead: the people who handle pressure well aren't the ones who eliminate fear. They're the ones who've learned to zoom out and ask a bigger question than "what if I mess this up?" That shift, from the moment in front of you to the bigger picture around it, is a skill, and it's one you can build.

BY THE TIME YOU FINISH LISTENING, YOU'LL DISCOVER:

• A simple question to ask yourself before a high-stakes moment that cuts through spiraling nerves.

• The reframe that pulls you out from "I have to perform this perfectly" to "look at where I am right now"

• Why letting go of your script and just sharing your story, rather than reciting it, is what actually earns people's trust

• The brain science behind why stepping back, not preparing harder, is what steadies us when the pressure is on

Jack's pattern shows up again and again: something catches his attention, and instead of getting stuck in the moment, he zooms out to see the bigger picture first.

When you finish listening, I'd love to hear your biggest takeaway from today's episode. Take a screenshot of you listening on your device, share it to your Instagram stories, and tag me, @thespeakershiplab!

While you're there, make sure you follow me on Instagram so you can see behind the scenes of how I help leaders communicate with clarity, confidence, and connection and how you can too.

CONNECT WITH JACK BONNEAU 

LEARN MORE FROM MARGARET: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaretwattsromney/  Instagram: @thespeakershiplab

OTHER LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

• Jack's TEDx talks —TEDxBoulder, TEDxCherry Creek

• Jack's Shark Tank appearance

• Ayduk, Ö., & Kross, E. (2010). From a distance: Implications of spontaneous self-distancing for adaptive self-reflection. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 98(5), 809–829. — https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2881638/

• Piff, P. K., Dietze, P., Feinberg, M., Stancato, D. M., & Keltner, D. (2015). Awe, the small self, and prosocial behavior. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 108(6), 883–899. — https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25984788/

Here's the problem: most of us think our speaking only counts when we're behind a podium, pitching to investors, or standing on a red dot under a spotlight. So if we're not "speakers" in that sense, we assume we don't need to evolve how we communicate at all.

But that gap is where people stall. It’s in the meetings where you give hard feedback, the moment you have to motivate a team, the conversation where you “manage up” to your boss... that's all speakership too. Most people never name it, let alone focus on it, and put the time in to figure out what comes next.

BY THE TIME YOU FINISH LISTENING, YOU'LL LEARN:

• Where the word "speakership" came from, straight from backstage at TEDx Salt Lake City

• How one leader's "speakership" showed up everywhere from the red dot to the Shark Tank to a fishing trip with his kids

• The brain science behind why naming your story matters (hint: narrative coherence and the default mode network)

Speakership rarely happens on a stage. It happens in every other room you walk into.

When you finish listening, I'd love to hear your biggest takeaway from today's episode. Take a screenshot of you listening on your device, share it to your Instagram stories, and tag me, @thespeakershiplab!

While you're there, make sure you follow me on Instagram so you can see behind the scenes of how I help leaders make things happen with their words and how you can too.

LEARN MORE FROM MARGARET: LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaretwattsromney/

Instagram: @thespeakershiplab

OTHER LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

• Speakership Is Leadership (book) 

• Speakership is Leadership (audiobook)

• Pat Crowley's TEDx talk / Shark Tank appearance 

• Research on narrative coherence and life satisfaction 

• McAdams original research, “ Life story coherence and its relation to psychological well-being.” 

• MedLink Neurology, Origins and relevance of the default mode network 

You've built your career on holding a lot of information in your head and using that info to help others. So when a conversation or meeting takes a pivot, and you don't know what to say next, it can feel like proof you don't have what it takes.

Here's what we see: those moments have a structure. Once you can see it, you stop struggling in times of change and start navigating them on purpose. That's what this show exists to teach you.

HERE YOU’LL LEARN:

• What's coming on the show: real communication moments from Margaret's clients, including which words built trust, which lost it, and why

• The idea that pivots and surprises in leadership have a pattern, one we want to show you

• What it sounds like to bring ten thousand hours of communication work out from behind the velvet rope and deliver it to you

The first episodes are coming, so subscribe now wherever you listen.

When you finish listening, I'd love to hear what you're most looking forward to. You can find us on  Instagram or LinkedIn.